forum.audiv8.com Foren English Audi V8 Forum Manuel 5-speed switch in to a automatic car

Hi

I’m planning to put a Manuel 5-speed in my 1991 Audi V8 Automatic.
Except, Pedals and flywheel with clutch.

Do I also need ex, the rear chaft, drive chaft ?

yes, you'll need to change the driveshaft as well.

This is a major operation. There are one million big and little things that need to be changed, including the transmission tunnel (the manual will not fit in the automatic body), the exhaust, the wiring, instrument cluster, ECU and so forth.

You´ll need a manual transmission donor car as parts source. If you don´t have access to one - get one first.
My advice: Sell your automatic car and buy a manual.

Ronny Enzmann has done this before - click here for the thread where he describes how he`d done it. Quote: "I would not do this again", and he´s got lots of experience as well as acomplete donor car.
There´s a shop in the US that has done some conversions. Check out their website for some pictures and additional information: http://www.germanautoconnection.com/5-speed_conversion.htm

Hi,

Do you know how to bypass the starter cut off on the automatic car.

Lee Dobb

This method worked immaculately on my Citroen. But unfortunately I´m not quite sure, if it is the same on the V8.:
I guess you should bridge the transmission ecu by a relay.
The wiring goes from the ignition switch to an additional relay and from this relay to the starter.
I did this on my other car (a Citroen XM). But one problem is, that the engine will start, although if a gear is engaged. This might bring you some trouble, if you don`t mind.

Two guys converted v8 quattro cars to 5 speed manuals on Motorgeek.com and took lots of pics. "auto diied...5spd conversion time...done!!" http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12879

and " Das V8 5 speed swap"
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25073&start=75

In the first link the guy took the 5 speed gear box from a 1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20 valve Turbo car because it has the strong 016 transmission and the drive shaft . The front axles and trans tunnel sheet metal that is needed for the conversion. The flywheel and clutsch are from a company called 034 motorsport.

By the way, you want the front of the V8q prop-shaft and the rear of the 5kq/200q20v prop-shaft. For those that have never broken down a prop/drive-shaft it's super easy. Remove the circlips from the caps opposite from each other and press one side until the opposite side protrudes enough to be pulled out (watch out that you don't tear the seal). Then press the u-joint back to expose the other cap. You can then split the shaft apart with out trying to remove the nut/bolt from the yoke, which would be the hard way.

. He used the trans tunnel sheet metal too and welded it into the V8. He also took the clutch pedals from the 200 20v turbo.

He used the front cv joints from the 200 20v quattro. And used the 200 20v quattro lociking diff parts too.

I have an original V8 5 speed but it took a while to find it since they onlly imported 68 or so to the USA. But I wouldn't mind trying this conversion since their are a lot of V8's around with blown up automatics for $600-$1000 .

Hope these links helped.

Here is a picture above of the sheet metal welding for the 5 speed shifter .

This is a quote from one of the links about wiring for the 5 speed swap: The only wiring you need to worry about on the actual tranny is wiring the backup light switch into the correct coastal connector. Its as simple as it sounds.

Andy, since your car is street driven you also need to plug in the Cruise switch for the clutch pedal, both electrical and Vacuum. The V8 already has the wiring for the clutch switch. You can use the Vacuum "T" from the 200 donor for the Vac side.

Transmission Mounts: The left trans mount is the same on an Audi 200 20v 016 and a Audi V8 Quattro 5 speed, but the right side mount is off by 1 inch, but an off set bracket can be welded onto the subframe to make it work. Use the Audi 200 5 speed hard and rubber transmission mounts, they are the same.

"Ya you need the v8 right mount. Now if you are willing to make a bracket or weld on 1" extension and mill it to fit you can use the factory 91 20020v right tranny mount. I opted to do a bracket till i find a v8 one or weld a 1" extension and have it milled. I bet i will do the welding and milling forbore i find a v8 mount. The throttle bracket has been relocated from the auto housing to the engine block itself. there just so happen to be a bolt waiting for me to use. now i had to make a hair adjustment to tps. Got the lower H-pipe bolted up with the o2 hooked up. I hit the ignition, and in seconds i had lost my hearing. Man what a perfect note for 1/4mile drags."

"
Oh, 5cyl rubber trans mounts must go through the bottom of the V8 subframe. I have to make a shim to close the air-gap on the driver side and need to make a ~1.5" long adapter to go on the passenger side yet and replace all the hardware (it went MIA from the 5kq).

The 016 center-diff lock vacuum actuator clears the procon-ten brackets, which at first we were not sure it would. "

Will also need to jumper power to the cruise module. As I recall the Auto cars Cruise receives power from the TCU when the speed is over 35 (?) mph. Only a few wires to the Cruise module so it should be pretty simple to trace in the diagrams which wire needs power....and use switched power!

"BTW. Just finished bolting a 5-speed into a V8.

The Shift linkage has plenty of adjustment. No cutting necessary. But if you mounted the shift cup too far forward then you are a bit SOL at this point. We checked and triple checked the shifting at each point in process.

There is over an inch of adjustment in both the sliderod and selector shaft, both are splined. Before putting the trans in I made sure all of the adjustments moved freely. Cleaned everything up and left everything finger tight.

In order to give a little more tunnel clearance for the shift linkage Adam liberally used a hammer but I also shortened the dog-bone connecting rod on top of the trans. This brings the selector shaft closer to the trans and away from the tunnel.

We also used the 5k subframe so the trans mounts end up REAL close. About an inch back as expected. Easy to make a small bracket on top of the trans mounts. "

"swaps I've heard/read about at least one of the shift rods was too long. In my case the push rod (the "stationary" rod that the ball socket/cup is part of) is adjusted fully in as far as I can tell or move it, and is smack against the 200's shifter "box". It has managed to center the socket in the center console. The selector shaft is also adjusted in but is still at least a 1/2" too long, although cutting 0.75-1.00" off of it is no big deal because it does have so much adjustment.
We cut a chunk out of the 016 bell housing to use the V8's sensors.... "

Picture attached above of trans tunnel modification from under the V8 Quattro.

final parts list for V8 quattro 5 speed swap

016 w/4.11 final (1991 Audi 200 20v Turbo is a strong one)
Front half of drive shaft from V8 quattro
Rear half of drive shaft from 200 20v quattro
200q20v or V8q5spd front axles
Right V8q 5spd trans bracket (or make spacers to use the one from the 200 20v quattro )
Left trans bracket from 1991 200 20v quattro
Reuse V8 engine cradle/ subframe
200 quattro clutch pedals
200 quattro slave cyliner and hoses
Back up lights wiring on trans plug into automatic cars harness
200q (10v or 20v, doesn't matter) shifter sheet metal
200 quattro 5spd shifter assembly (any will work)
T valve from 200 q for clutch pedal cruise control
Send switched power to cruise control from TCU
Leave TCU in park or nuetral.
Wire nuetral safety switch near auto shifter so car will start.
Mount throttle cable to block instead of automatic trans location.
Sheet metal to make filler panels behind the center console
Sawzall
Welder (MIG is a good option, no stick here, TIG would work too)
Wire brushes
Dremel w/larger cut-off wheels
body hammers
Tin snips
Tape measure
sharpies
10-bolt flywheel (034 motorsports.com)
200 clutch kit of some sort
pilot bearing to match the transmission

If you use a 1991 Audi 200 20v quattro for a donar, you'll have about everything buy the flywheel and clutch.

If you use a 5kq 016 donar you'll need a speed sensor & drive gear from a 200 (any 5spd), center diff lock tubing and valve, and a couple other minor things.

What was a complete part list of transmission swap stuff?

The starter will work if you put the automatic cars nuetral saftety switch in nuetral or park and tuck it up out of the way with some wire ties. Quote from Deracuda on Motorgeek: "As for the starter, you'll probably have to bypass the automatic neutral safety switch which makes it so you have to have the car in park or neutral to start it. those will be in the console area somewheres. you probably unplugged them from the shifter unit."

Quote from Ronald G Wainright on Motorgeek: The only diffrence I see are the part #'s for the Aluminum tranny mounts.
AUTO......
Support (Left) part # 441.399.113B
Support (Right) part # 441.399.104E

MANUAL......
Support (Left) part # 441.399.113
Support (Right) part # 441.399.104G

This info is from JustFourRings.com thread called: "Sams questionable V8 thread"

http://forums.justfourrings.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1596&start=100

If you try to convert a 1992-1994 4.2 V8 quattro to a 5 speed, you'll need to get a 90-91 V8 engine computer with related harness, the TCU computer and harness, and the 3.6 PT intake manifold and injectors and mount them on your 4.2 engine. Then proceed with the 5 speed swap.

You may say, "even the Tcu and harness?"

Yes the 4.2's ECU & TCU talk to eachother, so you'd have to switch both otherwise something will not be happy..

Unless you have access to a Occilloscope and can read all the patterns of signals from a working 3.6 and 4.2 and can figure out where to stick the 3.6 signals into the 4.2 TCU so that it doensn't freak out.

So, theoretically speaking... If I have a 3.6L 5-speed, stock ECU with an ABT chip...
I can drop a 4.2L in there with no issue, keep the transmission, ECU, chip, and harness... and I win?
What about if I have Audi V8Q '93 with automatic transmission ant ABH engine - I just change engine ECU (from PT) and harness ?? automatic transmission ECU and harness stays the same ??
What about other options in Audi V8 ABH, like servotronic, climate control,
ABS... Is this swap will not effect what I just mentioned ?

Yes if you use the PT ECU & wiring AND TCU and wiring you're all set, The rest of the car's wiring stays the same (Servotronic, ABS will not be effected).

So if you have a 3.6 5 speed just drop in the 4.2 and you are 100% swapped. So long as you use the electronics for the 3.6. The electronics do not know; nor care which engine it's controlling.

You *should* also use the 3.6 Injectors. The one on the 4.2 are larger (and again the electronics don't know any better) and the car will run rich all the time. The extra few pound of fuel are to0 much for the O2 sensor to dial back.

While you're at it (and if you listen to Ron) he'll suggests you use the 3.6 Intake too.. the 3.6 Intake is coated inside and out, give you a smoother flow